kevinfirth

I guess it's a shame that feelings run so hot I am a happy client of Earth Sims, (and of FranceVFR as well), and I have spoken with Darren many times. Never have I ever had the impression that he was a thug or a pirate I'm sorry. I understand the time and energy you've put in to getting people to commit to something like AGX, and I can understand why you feel upset when that invisible work appears to be treated very casually. I as well as many other simmers I know struggle to make the wonderful sceneries both your companies provide work together, which they really need to do since they are so close to each other geographically and both very very good! There are some compatibility issues between your two sets of sceneries... I know because I've asked for support about it from ES, (not yourselves because of the perceived language barrier [my fault not yours!] and your forums being 99.9% in French), and I've tried to help a large number of other people with similar compatibility problems over several years. Just like you, earth Sims is a small company and I'm sure you'll understand that support requests take up valuable time that could be spent developing! That's ok if you're as big as OrbX, but not if you're a very small team I think Darren's posting of the autogen files is probably to try to reduce those support queries that take up time rather than to try to sabotage AGX. I think your companies have more in common than separates you. As a simmer who just wants to fly between different sceneries easily, whatever has gone on before, I'd ask you all to just work together to solve the problem that Microsoft left us all with.... I'll support any small developer who trys to make things better for the community. FranceVFR has tried with AGX and earth Simulations tried with MergES. Not every solution works out how it was originally intended but both of you deserve credit for trying to do something positive about a problem that neither of you caused. I believe that there is only good intent on both sides, so could I suggest a potential solution? 1. Ask Darren to take down the files he published while you talk about it? Shows a bit of good faith in a situation where there is little trust. 2. He said he's happy for anyone to distribute Earth Simulations autogen definitions, so take him up on that positive offer and include them in AGX (Even if you don't trust each other much, what harm does it do? Only the end user benefits vastly so no one will argue!) 3. At the moment all ES are doing is offering your definitions, but if you include theirs why can't they distribute AGX as well to benefit a wider community? (Everyone gets credit for the physical and human effort put into an enterprise, and more simmers get to enjoy product compatibility, everyone spends less time on dealing with support requests) 4. We all live happily ever after with compatible definitions... (More time flying, less time arguing!) 5. Profit! (Not just a South Park reference You both potentially get more sales from either side of the channel) 6. Arno has raised the possibility of creating an autogen file merge utility at FSDeveloper recently. If ever there was an example of a community minded simmer who was completely selfless, it's Arno.... Both of you should work with him to solve the problem for the community . If you could together create an autogen merge utility that any developer or individual could use to eliminate incompatibilites at an individual user level then the problem is solved and everyone is happy. I'm not suggesting a corporate ménage a trois just a little bit of Anglo-French detente Cool heads not hot hearts - salut, et bonne chance! K PS speak with Alain about my PM.....

Hi Alain, sorry about having to post in English, I feel very inferior! I think the emails you have exchanged may not accurately reflect intentions? (Although since I am not party to any of them I cannot say for certain). I am a supportive customer of Earth Simulations and have only ever felt that their best intentions were for the benefit of the sim community. I am also a supportive customer of FranceVFR and would like to extend my photoreal+ full autogen coverage to include the full UK and France I have some Orbx sceneries as well, but you will find quite openly on their forums I have had some 'debates' with John Venema. I find his style of communication very brusque and bordering on unfriendly! So, please don't take my post as complaining to you about anything, it was just meant as a statement of fact. (I have my own feelings as to OrbX's business model and how well it fits with a community based attitude, as I've stated quite clearly and openly on their forum regarding the compatibility of their airfields with current VFR photoscenery for the UK ) I cannot forget that the problem with which we are faced was created by Microsoft, not any developer. I commend FVFR for making a positive attempt to solve the autogen problem! Please let's not get hung up on who provides the solution as long as there is one Rather than get angry with each other, I'd hope that ALL developers without exception could find a way to work together to solve this problem for your customers in a way that minimises inconvenience and does not damage anyone's business (everyone needs to earn a living, and no one should have a monopoly) I cannot speak for OrbX and John Venema but other developers like Earth Simulations (and Sim720 now -I beta test for them) are all up for working together as a community and not damaging each other. If everyone can calm down (I'm a scouser from Liverpool!) and forget past transgressions, I'm sure you could talk together again and work collaboratively so you both benefit I support you all as developers equally and all I would like is to be able to buy more of your stuff and for it all to work together Merci, K

As an aside I tried the Earth Simulations published files and they didn't work, so I contacted them. The dev said he had compiled the files wrongly and has updated them, so I think the failure to work was more a mistake than a deliberate attempt to screw things up. he also said as far as he's concerned their autogen files can be incorporated by anyone without a problem, so you could take that as a green light to use their definitions in AGX? The more compatibility the better IMHO, and like them or not, OrbX do have a large customer base, so deliberately distancing AGX from OrbX will either; a) force people to switch between 2 sets of definitions (awkward) or b) simmers will simply choose to not buy one or other set of products. That would be a real shame for such a small community K

Messieurs, Excuse moi, mais je ne parle pas beaucoup de Francais I have followed this development with autogen definitions with interest for some months, as it is a major problem for all simmers. Anyone who attempts to provide a work round this FSX problem (cause by Microsoft let's remember!), has my full support. I have many sceneries from both Earth Simulations, France VFR and OrbX. I don't know the history of communications between developers but I hope that everyone can look for a calm solution that benefits every customer, rather than descend into squabbles It seems to me that there are three potential types of solutions. 1. Each developer supplies to all others their autogen definitions so everyone can distribute everything. This would cause problems with making sure you had a complete up to date set of autogen files though. I think this is what OrbX basically wanted to do, hoping that their market position would allow them to dominate the European area. 2. Someone provides a central repository of up to date autogen definitions that are distributed centrally. this is I think what FVFR's AGNX attempts to do? Someone has to maintain it though, and that someone therefore has control over other developers to some extent, (by eliminating them or holding back on updates), so I can understand why some devs don't want to go down that route. 3. Someone provides an autogen definition merge utility so that every simmer can individually maintain an up to date and accurate merged set of autogen files for sceneries they own. This is what Earth Simulations tried to do with MergES, and while it worked at first (It did, I used it frequently!), it now only half works I think that route 3 is now the only way forward that will be acceptable to all devs, and I know Arno is looking at creating such a utility If he does, every developer can include that in their installers and no customers will have to suffer with autogen incompatibility ever again. I'd like to commend FVFR for trying to provide a solution to the problem, and encourage ALL devs can work together to find a solution, whatever their differences, because it IS such a BIG problem. I'd happily buy more FVFR sceneries but as a Brit, the UK is my focus and if things aren't compatible I will stick with my UK addons working rather than expand into France Merci & au revoir!! K